Chivalry? Dead? Naaaaaah. But…

chivalry

They are totally going to make out later.

I’ve had several interviews recently in which the demise of chivalry has been a concern as well as the overall the quality of single men. I say don’t hate on the men. We’re all doing our best. HOWEVER, sometimes chivalry does feel scarce. And I wonder what the problem is. Did feminism kill chivalry?

In any case, I’d like to breathe some life back into chivalry.

Perhaps there are guys out there wondering about chivalry—i.e. how to be chivalrous, is it necessary? why do men have to do EVERYTHING when it comes to dating?—let me say this: basic chivalry is easy (you’re not taking a bullet for her for christ’s sake) and goes a long way. We’re talking Courtesy 101. You barely have to do anything to pass.

Do I swoon when a guy opens a door for me? Yes. Do I love it when he walks on the street side of the sidewalk? Absolutely. Does he increase his chances exponentially of a second date (if he wants one) if he stands up when I get up from the table? You betcha. Don’t overthink this one guys. Just do.

An interesting take on the chivalrous male/feminist woman perspective. Personally, I’ve never known any women to say any of these things on the feminist side. I agree with the male perspective in this article for the most part, though the tone is weird and condescending sometimes. But the sum up is right on:

A general rule of thumb to keep in mind when dealing with the fairer (not weaker) sex: Treat them as you would want them to treat you. Don’t baby her or treat her like a child; simply be there for her as you would a good friend and everything should be fine.

More questions men might have about CHIVALRY:

But what about feminism and equality and all that?
Uh, well, I hold doors for and am, in general, very polite to most strangers around me, regardless of gender, race, political affiliation, consumption of animal products, how their pay compares to mine, etc. etc.

How come women don’t do these things for men on a date?
Do you want us to? I think you would hate it if I stood up at the table when you go to the bathroom. I’ve been on dates during which I’ve tried to hold the door for a guy and it was kinda awkward. Meaning, he looked at me like “Why are you doing that?” When walking through a door, it can’t be an equal step across the threshold unless the door frame is really wide. Someone has to take the lead and the other person has to follow. Why not take the guesswork out? Practical chivalry. I love it.

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5 responses to “Chivalry? Dead? Naaaaaah. But…

  1. This is simple really. If she’s a feminist, treat her equal to a man. Don’t offer her anymore chivalry than you would offer another man. Men aren’t rude to other men (in our opinion) but we don’t treat other men with genteel courtesy and deference. That’s all feminists should get, exactly what men get, common courtesy but not chivalry. They wanted equality with men and should get just that.

    • The Single Scientist

      Interesting. Admittedly, Catch, when I first read your comment, well, you pissed me off. Perhaps it’s the tone. Whether you meant it or not, it does have overtones of “fuck you women for wanting EQUALITY.” Like, you don’t get to have your cake and eat it, too (even though, let’s be honest, men have been having their cake and eating it, too for a LOT longer. I’m not mad about it, I’m just pointing out reality.) HOWEVER, I slept on it, and I have some questions, because, again, I find this interesting:
      1. How do you know if the woman you are with is a feminist so you can decide how to treat her? Do you ask or assume?
      2. If the woman you are with is a feminist – meaning she believes she deserves equality – but say, works in a job where she actually does not get equal pay (the sept 2010 census indicates that women earn 77 percent of what men earn), are you chivalrous or commonly courteous?
      3. In general, when you’re dating (assuming you date), do you notice a difference between how women react to you depending on how you are treating her?

      Oh, and I should point out that while yes, as human beings we all deserve equality in the workplace and general social respect despite our race, gender or creed, men and woman are not the same. We look different, smell different, think and feel different. So if this is the case, in terms of romantic involvement, wouldn’t it stand to reason that we would treat each other different?

      • Single Scientist:

        First, very importantly, my comment was specifically re: feminists, not women in general.

        Answers to your questions:

        1. How do you know if the woman you are with is a feminist so you can decide how to treat her? Do you ask or assume?

        I either have already picked it up in conversation or I simply ask.

        2. If the woman you are with is a feminist – meaning she believes she deserves equality – but say, works in a job where she actually does not get equal pay (the sept 2010 census indicates that women earn 77 percent of what men earn), are you chivalrous or commonly courteous?

        If she’s a feminist, I treat her with common courtesy. However, I would never date a woman who would work for $77,000 when the guy in the next office (who is equally productive and works the same number of hours)? A woman who would work for a company that does that and put up with it herself is simply not intelligent enough for me.

        3. In general, when you’re dating (assuming you date), do you notice a difference between how women react to you depending on how you are treating her?

        Of course.

        “So if this is the case, in terms of romantic involvement, wouldn’t it stand to reason that we would treat each other different?”

        Different in what way(s)? Where do you draw the line? Should I expect her to do all the cooking, washing, and cleaning because she’s the woman? What happened to equality?

  2. Chivalry or equality. Pick one. Expecting equality from 9-to-5 and chivalry from 5-to-9 is asinine and selfish. Do you stand-up when a man leave the table? Do you walk to his outside when walking on a sidewalk? Do you ask men out on first dates? Do you pay for their meals?

    Most men haven’t been having their cake and eating it, too. Men younger than 40 grew up in the post women’s lib movement. Men in their 50’s were college students during the 60’s and 70’s feminist movement, so they don’t count either. Just because men did awful things in the past, doesn’t mean modern men should be held accountable. If that were the case, modern Germans would be subjected to suffering by the Jews on account of past events.

    Women are out-earning men in many professions. They comprise the majority of graduate degrees. They no longer are confined to being housewives. Even the gender wage gap has been proven wrong time and time again. Mostly because women are less likely to seek employment in dangerous or labor-intensive fields. They are also less likely to work overtime, or relocate.

    Even with these gains, mainly monetary, women still generally want a mate who has a larger income. There isn’t a shortage of “good men”. There has just been an abundance of women who earn large incomes. When more women are graduating college than men, it should be no surprise that there will not be enough college educated men for all these women. So either they will remain single (which is happening) or they will *GASP* date men who have incomes smaller than their own. I know that’s a tough one for women to grasp. Don’t worry though, men have been doing it for a long time.

    It is rare for a woman to marry-down the socioeconomic ladder. Women often justify this by saying ” I want someone on my level” or “I don’t want to support a man”. All of which are BS. For some reason, none of those excuses seem to apply when they are hunting for men who earn more than they earn. Nurses marrying surgeons. Lawyers marrying their secretaries. Teachers marrying engineers. I could go on and on. Rarely will you find an exception where a man of lesser economic and/or academic value was able to marry a woman of greater value. So women get to experience the benefits of economic and academic equality without having to “settle”, as men have always done. Remember, if someone marries-up, then their partner has subsequently married-down. So in most cases, men marry down.

    The above paragraph probably applies to you since I assumed you are a scientist. I imagine you generally limit yourself to only men with at least a bachelor’s degree and an income that is at least your equivalent. I have a bachelor’s myself, and I remember what dating was like after I obtained my degree. Suddenly, women were interested in me. Even women who were uninterested in the past. That was why I don’t tell women I am interested in that I have a college degree. I want them to like me for me, and not my degree. Coincidentally, dating has become much more challenging since I stopped disclosing my education to women, as I expected it would.

    If women expect archaic chivalry, then I expect them to get back in the kitchen. Me expecting a chef and maid is no different than a woman wanting chivalry. Both are outdated, sexist expectation. So what’s it going to be — 50’s chivalry, or modern equality? My guess is you want both.

    This blog wouldn’t even exist had gender roles remained as they were. We are now experiencing the effects of altering nature. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m all for equality, so long as everyone is willing to be treated as equals. Unfortunately, women don’t want the negatives that come from being equal to men. They want the Disney relationship partnered with their equality.

    Contrary to popular belief, women in the 1950’s were not subservient, baby-making, kitchen slaves. I volunteer at a nursing home 2 times a week. Most of the residents are female. Most of them are over 80 years old, and were adults in the 1950’s. I have yet to meet one who hated being a woman in the 50’s. Not one who felt they weren’t appreciated. Not one who felt their only place was being in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. But when I talk to 20 and 30-something feminists, they claim that these women were unhappy and mistreated. Funny how the women who didn’t actually live during that decade are always telling the world how bad life was at that time.

    I don’t know if you are still single, but if you are, I wish you the best of luck in the dating world. Just remember that times have changed. You have no one to blame but yourself if you are still single and have outdated expectations of modern men. I am 28 and I don’t expect women to cook and clean for me. Why? Because I have adapted with the times.

  3. Sorry, fixing a typo in answering question #2:

    If she’s a feminist, I treat her with common courtesy. However, I would never date a woman who would work for $77,000 when the guy in the next office (who is equally productive and works the same number of hours) gets paid $100,000. A woman who would work for a company that does that and put up with it herself is simply not intelligent enough for me. No offense intended.

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